Popular @troid.org

Topic-icon Paradise and Hellfire WILL NOT come to an end

  • Abu Ubaidah
  • Abu Ubaidah's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Jadīd Boarder
  • Jadīd Boarder
More
6 years 8 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #2238 by Abu Ubaidah
IBN AL QAYYIM ERRED IN REGARDS TO HELLFIRE COMING TO AN END

I asked Our brother Abūl-'Abbas Mūsá Richardson about the issue of Jannah and Naar being created and if that means that they will come to an end...

Abū Ubaidah: if everything which created is going to come to an end, how about Jannah and Naar since they are Created ?


Mūsá Richardson: " Allaah is al-Aakhir with none after Him and He made the jannah and fire as everlasting rewards for the jinn and mankind. STOP

Ibn al-Qayyim erred in this issue however ijmaa preceded him, Ibn Hazm said the whole ummah has agreed that there is no end to paradise or hell, except for Jahm ibn safwaan. Ibn Hazm was 300 years before ibn al Qayyim, Scholars who came after ibn al Qayyim rejected his claim and refuted him. Imam Aḥmad considered anyone who said they ended to be a mubtadi'.[See correction in reply post]

But its from some of ibn al qayyims works, In contradiction to other clear places where he spoke correctly. Similarly its attributed to ibn taymiyyah, also as San'aanee has a book refuting ibn al qayyim and ibn taymiyyah, Al-Albaanee produced it from manuscript form and put a 50 page intro to the topic and endnotes throughout (the book).

The book is Called..

"رفع الأستار لإبطال أدلة القائلين بفناء النار"

Excellent resource on the topic (of) The issue of hellfire coming to an end. "


Abū Ubaidah Muneeb: So is it that ibn al Qayyim rahimuhullaah fell into a bid'ah ?


Mūsá Richardson: " Error, Bid'ah, Wrong...It seems he may have believed that some reports from the companion were authentic and they weren't. He erred in a way that agreed with the Jahmiyyah, And the scholars rejected it and refuted him for it and still do till this day. " [See correction in reply post]



Also our brother Abū Iyaḍh Amjad Rafīq mentioned to us:

"From the many lies against Ibn Taymiyyah is that he does not believe in the eternity of the Hellfire. The reason for this doubt is that his student Ibn al-Qayyim (raḥimahullāh) inclined towards this view, outlining it's evidences, and showing the strength of this position, without actually indicating explicitly that he holds it out of firm conviction. When he mentioned the evidences for this view in his books such as Haadi al-Arwaah,and Shifaa al-Aleel, he made reference to the fact that Ibn Taymiyyah has mentioned a number of views regarding the matter, from which was the saying that the Hellfire is not eternal and will expire. However, the Innovators took this to mean that Ibn Taymiyyah actually held this view, when in reality, Ibn Taymiyyah simply mentioned the views of various factions, and then proceeded to refute what is incorrect and establish what agrees with the Book and the Sunnah as is his habit. As for Ibn al-Qayyim, upon study of this subject in his numerous books it appears that he was not committed fully to the view, but considered the arguments for it to be very strong and inclined towards it. One can find him expressing another opinion as occurs in his other books such al-Waabil al-Sayyib and Tariq al-Hijratayn, which is that Hellfire is eternal. In any case, Ibn al-Qayyim supported the view of Hellfire not being eternal and coming to an end partially because of the presence of narrations from the Companions that indicate this, and he was not the first to express this view, with our knowledge that his writings only indicate his belief in the strength of argument for this view, not that he wholeheartedly believed it to be actually true."

Source: Ibn Taymiyyah on the Eternity of Paradise and Hellfire - www.ibntaymiyyah.com/articles/bcudc-ibn-...ise-and-hellfire.cfm


And Allaah Knows Best.
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by troid.org admin.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ummsufyaan

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 4 months ago #2396 by moosaa.richardson
Replied by moosaa.richardson on topic Paradise and Hellfire WILL NOT come to an end
After considering what my brother Abū Iyaḍ Amjad Rafiq has written (quoted above): "Ibn al-Qayyim (raḥimahullāh) inclined towards this view, outlining it's evidences, and showing the strength of this position, without actually indicating explicitly that he holds it out of firm conviction."

After considering it and reviewing the issue carefully, I believe what Amjad has said is correct (may Allaah bless him), and what I previously understood (that Ibn al-Qayyim actually held the position that the Hellfire will come to an end) was wrong (may Allaah excuse me). This is since Ibn al-Qayyim's words in his book "al-Waabil as-Sayyib" are explicitly clear in saying that Paradise and Hellfire will NOT come to an end. This is his position that he expressed and held to, while there are some other passages within his books that could lead people to assuming the opposite. Yet, upon close inspection, it is clear that he only mentioned it as a position held by others and never explicitly adopted it for himself.

Based on this, I need to make the following matters clear:

1. I openly retract attributing this position to the great scholar Imām Ibn al-Qayyim.

2. Saying "He erred in a way that agreed with the Jahmiyyah" has no place in any discussion about Imām Ibn Qayyim al-Jowziyyah, and I openly retract it. I further remind myself and my brothers of the great status of this mountain of knowledge, this warrior in the path of the Salafī Creed and Manhaj, author of As-Sawaa'iq al-Mursalah in refutation of the Jahmiyyah Cult and other works against the people of desires and innovation. May Allaah have Mercy on him and increase me and you in our love and admiration of him.

3. My statement, "Error, Bid'ah, Wrong..." was not intended to magnify what I understood to be an error. Rather, I was asked if we could say he fell into bid'ah, and I meant: "Yes, no matter what you call it - error, bid'ah, wrong..." My intention was to stress the Salafī Methodology of refusing mistakes even when they come from our own great scholars. Again, this was based on my error in understanding Ibn al-Qayyim's position on the issue.

4. It does not matter that these words were said in a private message. So long as they have reached the public, a public retraction is necessary.

5. Regarding the following statement written by our brother Abū Iyaḍ:

"One should note that Ibn al-Qayyim's position in the first of his two views has no connection with the doctrine of the Jahmiyyah regarding the expiration of Paradise and Hellfire. Since the origin of the saying of al-Jahm bin Safwaan in this regard is based upon the principle of "the impossibility of an endless chain of events" in both the past and the future and "whatever is not devoid of hawaadith is itself haadith (originated)". Upon this, the Jahmiyyah denied Allaah's chosen actions, and this led them to many corrupt statements in belief, including the statemennt of the Qur'an being created and the claim of the non-eternity of Paradise and Hellfire. As for the view that Ibn al-Qayyim tended to, then the origin of that is either a general text (in the Qur'an) or narrations (from numerous Companions) that are not authentic. Hence, Ibn al-Qayyim (in the first view he inclined towards) simply spoke with a view that is marjooh, daeef (weak) as Imām Ibn Baz explained, and his position has nothing to do with the Jahmiyyah. Far from it. On the contrary, Ibn al-Qayyim demolished the particular foundation of the Jahmiyyah upon which their corrupt doctrines are built..."

www.ibntaymiyyah.com/articles/bcudc-ibn-...ise-and-hellfire.cfm

If this was said in response to my error, then this is a great example of how Ahl al-Sunnah support each other. It is not permissible for us to have hizbiyyah between us, where we defend each other in falsehood. Mistakes connected to the Deen of Allaah are rejected, corrected, and clarified. This is what our great scholars teach us, and as students of knowledge, not scholars, you should expect to see us often retracting errors and clarifying the correct position regarding our mistakes. May Allaah bless us all and keep us far away from blameworthy loyalties that prevent us to recognizing the truth.

Please assist your brother in conveying these words to anyone who read the original mistake. May Allaah reward you well.
The following user(s) said Thank You: troid.org admin

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.234 seconds